… then on my first day, he left a business card for me. Needless to say, we struck up a great friendship that I’ve thoroughly enjoyed. We try to meet often for coffee, “venting” and talking about church communications and marketing. It’s always a blast.

Chris is one of the best marketing strategists I’ve ever met. I appreciate his insights so I thought I would do a long overdue question and answer post(s) with him here.

Here goes:

1. Give me your background and experience in church communications and marketing.

I grew up in a marketing family. My mom had a product field marketing firm and I remember seeing many of the national products we know and use now when they were all brand new. I was the first kid on the block to try almost every new product. Except for the girl stuff of course! J

Anyway, I never thought much about that part of my life until I was a missionary in Spain. While still in language school, we were helping in an outreach someone set up, handing out tracts. It wasn’t working well at all and I remember thinking, ” Mom would never handle a field marketing promotion this way.” That’s the first time I started thinking maybe marketing had something to say to help improve Christian outreach.

Since that day in 1996, I have been in constant study mode learning and applying marketing. I have studied and participated in just about every marketing application there is from research to advertising. Back in 2000, I started one of the first ministry marketing website eZines www.newWway.org (offline now, you can see an archive here). We didn’t know much about blogs then, but I have been connected to talking up the benefits of learning good communication strategy on the web since 2000.

I was the media strategist for the overseas office of the International Mission Board before I came to Oklahoma to work in our denominational state office in church planting and evangelistic media strategy. I also do a lot of marketing coaching with churches and organizations through contacts via my blog.

2. What are some good and positive trends in church marketing?

I think it is very positive that ministries are starting to take their marketing beyond just using it for promotional strategies. You see a lot more talk about becoming more contextualized in ministry. Contextualization really comes out of overseas missions and that’s where a lot of the talk about being missional is fueled. (Incidentally, that’s where church growth comes from too.)

I love it when people stop looking for canned approaches to reaching people and move toward really understanding the people they want to reach. The more people in ministry take their eyes off how cool they look in their marketing collateral and put them on real people and the needs of the community, the more success they will have at really reaching people.

3. What are some bad and negative trends in church marketing you see?

Bad marketing is all around us because too many ministry leaders try to use marketing as a program. They ” do some marketing” by creating some kind of ill-conceived ministry outreach, and then use marketing promotion tactics as a programing strategy to try to get people to respond. That’s the main source of bad marketing.

The other source of bad marketing comes from people who are infatuated with their graphic design software and use it to create edgy looking marketing promotional tools that practically nobody, besides the artist, understands. Bad marketing is always “YOU” marketing. That is marketing that talks about (or portrays) how great YOU think you are. Good marketing is ME marketing; it tells me how I and my family will benefit from what is being offered.

4. You talk a lot about the “ministry marketing mindset” … can you explain that?

I think most people already have the potential to be really effective ministry marketers, if only they would experience a change in how they think about marketing. In most people’s view marketing is about creating a message and pushing it to a target audience. A sales approach. Their way of thinking is flawed.

The real mindset you need is to start with the audience, understand them, learn what are the bridges and barriers to reaching them and know as much as you can about their needs. You use the bridges as a means to develop understanding with the people you want to reach so you can open their understanding to the gospel. If the people you want to reach have barriers to understanding, the communicator can contextualize the message to lower the barrier if it is not a compromise to the message. Do this all while meeting real needs in ministry. It’s basic missionary work. Paul said it best, “I am all things to all men…”

The mindset is this: Know the people you want to reach, learn their needs, and link your message to life application solutions to their needs. If you do this people will be attracted to you won’t have to constantly be pushing and selling. Like Peter Drucker said, “Marketing makes selling superfluous.”

5. What does it mean to be a media missionary?

I have had the joy to work with all kinds of media missionaries in my work overseas and in the United States. I wouldn’t say there is one definition for all of the possibilities for what kind of work they do. I know media missionaries who use Chronological Bible Storying as their medium and don’t use other media channels at all. But they certainly are media missionaries. Paul’s use of letter writing and rhetorical speaking tactics in the ancient world in his ministry made him the first media missionary in my opinion.

If I had to define media missionary work, I would say a media missionary is “a person who is a missionary using media.” Kind of corny, I know, but really, there are plenty of people using media who don’t know how to think like missionaries.

Good media missionaries have the missional ministry mindset and they use media strategically to accomplish their outreach. Because this work involves using channels traditionally used by marketers, a media missionary also understands and adapts the marketing concept in their work.Thus, they have the “ministry marketing mindset”.

***

Note: Check out Chris’ offer for free church marketing coaching here.

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Element is my Oklahoma City neighbor and I’ve long admired their work. In fact, a couple of weeks ago, I had the opportunity to attend a Web 2.0 conference they did for their clients. A couple of days afterward, Tim and I had the opportunity to sit down for lunch. He’s a former church communication director too!
Here’s Tim’s answers:

1. What’s your company’s mission?

Our company builds web-based products according to two core values. First, we value sophisticated simplicity. We want our products to be streamlined and simple to use. Second, we value being the best, not necessarily doing the most. We don’t try to add every possible feature, we focus on perfecting the features that most people need most of the time.

In addition to our products, our company also provides professional services in internet design and development. Our reputation is that of quality and of comprehensive customer service.

2. Can you give me some background on how you started doing church web sites?

Personally, I used to work in full-time ministry. I was in music ministry, actually. But because no one else was doing it, I sort of naturally gravitated toward managing our web presence. Time went by and I eventually ended up as Pastor of Technology and Communications at a large church in Houston. Now I’m working full-time in the technology world here at EF and I’m back to doing music at my home church here.

As for our company, we are not a “church web company,” we serve businesses and organizations of all kinds. However, we do work with a lot of churches. I think that’s because our three owners are all Christian businessmen who are active in their church and so from the beginning we’ve naturally had a lot of church contacts. In addition, we’ve had a long-time partnership with Life Church here in Oklahoma City and so a lot of churches find us through that relationship.

One of our products, Sky, is specifically geared toward churches. But it really doesn’t have any special mission that’s different from our other products. All of our products are designed to make high-end, professional websites approachable and simple to the end user. That’s a need for businesses just as much as it is for churches.

3. What products and services do you specialize in?

We specialize in creating high-end design backed by simple and sophisticated content management all wrapped up in outstanding customer service.

4. Any products you would like to highlight or mention that would be of specific value to churches?

As I previously mentioned, Sky is an online content management system specifically designed for churches. It’s built for custom design which means you can’t just sign up and pick from a template. But we did put together a very special design option called Custom Xpress that gets you a world-class custom website design for $1,995 in just five days. We really believe in custom website design over templates and we are trying to hold the standard high while still making it an approachable reality for churches.

We also have a very unique product called Light that targets designers and agencies who want to help churches or other organizations get a high-end content managed website. A designer who may not know how to build out websites can design the site and use Light to build it out and let their client (the church) manage it themselves.

5. What are the basic steps to designing a church site?

With Sky, you can sign up for a free account right on our website. You get the complete system at no charge, it’s just limited to three pages. You can try out all of the tools and see for yourself how easy it is to use.

When you’re ready to get a design, simply order Custom Xpress. We charge $1,995 and you are presented with an easy to understand online form where we ask all kinds of questions about what you are looking for in your site. Submit the form and five days later, we’ll give you your design loaded and ready to use on Sky.

From there, you have control and can build out your site with our easy to use tools. Once the site is ready, switch the DNS and you’re live!

6. What church web sites have you done?

Check out our design gallery on Sky here.

7. What advice do you have for smaller churches who may not have the resources to pay for a full-fledge site design?

Though we are major proponents of quality custom design, we do have some example templates built into Sky and we do have some churches that use these example templates as their website design for free. This is certainly an option, though I would recommend this only be a temporary solution while the church puts in place a plan to save for an eventual site redesign. The great thing with our system though is that if you get all of the content in there even on a free template, one day when you can add the custom design, all of the content is already there and fits right in with no extra work.

8. What purpose should Web sites accomplish for churches?

You know, when I was on staff at churches I was always trying to figure out how to make our church website the hub of online activity for our members. I always wanted to have a church website that was so compelling and interactive that it would be the home page for our members when they went online.

But now I’ve changed my mind a bit. Web 2.0 has exploded with a million little web applications that everyone can use. High speed internet and the conveniences of modern browsers make it simple to jump back and forth from site to site for whatever you need. RSS aggregation makes it a snap to pull in the content I want from all over the web and put it where I want it.

There’s no need for the church to try and make their site the center of all online activity. Instead, the church should do what every other quality website on the internet does – provide consistent and compelling content. Focus your time and energy on telling your members and the world what you do and what you’re about. Use blogs to share insights. Blogging should be huge for the church, and not because it’s just a cool thing to do. I mean, it’s all about putting your beliefs and thoughts online. Use blogs and also put accurate information about your events and your activities and keep it all updated all of the time.

Focus on the basics of content. Then let Google do its job and index all of that content so that people all over the world can find it in two seconds, and let your members go to other sites for all of the fancy online gadgets.

9. What trends (for good or bad) do you see in church web site design?

One interesting trend that I’ve noticed since being out here in the product marketing world is that there are actually more web builder type tools marketed specifically at churches than at businesses. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, just interesting. I think it means that churches need to be careful not to just try and jump onto whatever neat new toy comes along. Again, just focus on the basics and make good content.

10. What one (or more) Internet technology do you wish more churches would take advantage of?

My wish is for churches to make the transition from the Internet being a new, cool toy to embracing it as just a standard part of their world. I think this is a lot of what Web 2.0 is about – realizing that it’s not new anymore and it’s here to stay. What I mean by this is:

1) We don’t need to “try so hard” at our websites. We need to have one, it needs to look nice, and it needs to have consistent and compelling content all of the time. But it doesn’t have to have video, music, flash or anything else. It can, but it doesn’t have to. And if you do want video, why not put it on YouTube or something? It’s free and doesn’t take up your own space. I mean, this is all just a part of life now. Might as well use it.

2) We have to think about it, budget for it, and plan for it just like we do with letterhead and stamps, and air conditioning. And it doesn’t have to be super expensive, but it does have to cost something. It’s not just for the cool kids anymore.

11. What are a few basic search engine optimization techniques you would suggest churches do?

I have one SEO technique to recommend – maintain consistent and compelling content all of the time.

12. Any resources, sites, links, magazines, or articles (that you may have written) that you’d point churches to?

If you are interested in podcasting, I wrote a series of articles about it on our product support site that you might find helpful.

See “Sermon Management with the Blog Element”
“Podcasting with the Blog Element” and
“How and Why to Use Feedburner”

Also, there are lots more good resources on that same support site as well as on our company blog at www.elementfusion.com.

[Thanks, Tim! I like your tip about "consistent and compelling content."]

See all the Q&As in the Building Rockin’ Cool Church Websites series here.

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Here’s his answers:

What’s your company’s mission?

Details mantra is “Your message, made clear.” We are an A-Z creative/marketing agency dedicated to helping churches and Christian organizations communicate clearly, effectively and creatively so that their unique message is heard.

Can you give me some background on how you started doing church web sites?

During the explosion of Web use in the mid-to-late 1990s, Details saw the opportunity for churches to expand their influence and strengthen their communications strategies through a Web site. At that point, Details had already been working with churches for several years in their print media development, so expanding to the Web was a natural decision. Through the experience of designing numerous church sites, Details created the E-Zekiel content management solution for churches to easily create dynamic Web sites. Now separately owned and developed by Axletree Media, E-Zekiel is now widely used by churches and ministries across the world as a back-end Web solution. Today, Details provides custom designs for the E-Zekiel interface for numerous churches and ministries.

What products and services do you specialize in?

We specialize in branding and identity development for churches, para-church ministries, and Christian colleges/seminaries. This includes the creative development of identity campaigns, outreach projects, stewardship initiatives, and more.

What are the basic steps to designing a church site?

The specific steps vary from church to church, depending on the project. For most of our sites, we have defined a process that involves discovery, design, programming, and implementation so that when the site is launched, it is a true reflection of the church’s unique culture and mission. Our process includes a timeline with deadlines for our staff and the church to meet in order to have a timely site launch.

Realistically, how much should a church expect to pay for a top-quality Web site?

There are numerous variables in determining what a church’s investment should be in their Web presence, including the scope of the project (both creative and technical); the number of ministries at the church desiring unique designs; the expectations of Web use within the church and local community, and more.

What church web sites have you done?

Here are a few examples:

www.mountainlakechurch.com

www.c3orlando.com

www.hnw.org

www.biltmorebaptist.org

www.mpfbc.org

What advice do you have for smaller churches who may not have the resources to pay for a full-fledge site design?

The important thing is for the church to 1. establish a Web presence with current content and relevant resources and 2. educate the congregation about the importance and power of a Web site so that they can begin to budget for Web and communication resources on an ongoing basis.

What purpose should Web sites accomplish for churches?

The church Web site is the front door and first impression that many people now have of the church. This is where the first church visit takes place and people decide about making a visit to the physical church. For some churches, it will be primarily a resource for guests because they do not make many online resources available for members or give members any incentive for visiting the site. The key is to find a good balance between guest and member content to keep the site rich and content interactive.

What trends (for good or bad) do you see in church web site design?

The very positive trend that I see is in simplifying content and navigation so that the information is clear and removes any guesswork. Churches that remove the noise and confusion from their sites are the ones that are separating themselves from the average church Web site that is cluttered with content.

What one (or more) Internet technology do you wish more churches would take advantage of?

I find it surprising that most churches are not utilizing e-mail communications to the fullest potential. Sure, it is not the newest technology, but most churches are not giving their members and regular attenders the e-mail correspondence that people have come to expect and are already receiving with their daily newspaper, weather forecast, stock report, favorite team, and more. In addition to the savings in printing and postage, it gives an immediate way to reach people.

How should a church evaluate a prospective web site design firm or designer?

I would ask about the firm’s creative and technical process, their history and experience with similar size churches and projects like yours, some names of client references, and options beyond the Web development.

[Thanks, Lee, keep rockin' for churches and the Kingdom!]

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Here’s the Q&A:

1. How did you start blogging?

I actually started at work as a way to help market our company. I found out rather quickly that people really like to read about money management/personal finances and since I’ve written on the subject for years, it seemed like a natural fit for me.

2. What subject do you post most about?

I cover every area associated with personal finances — retirement, investing, debt management, making more money, etc. But the single topic I’ve posted about most is saving money. I recently compiled all of my money saving posts into one and I had 301 tips. It can be found here.

3. What are your favorite blog tools?

Reading blogs – Bloglines
Buying domains/managing email — GoDaddy
Blog software – Typepad (makes it easy for a non-tech guy like me)
Tracking (posts, ads, etc.) — Excel (there’s nothing like making it simple)

4. How often do you post?

I post five or six times a day Monday through Friday, once on Saturday and once on Sunday (where I write on “The Bible and Money” every week).

5. What one piece of advice would you give for prospective blogging pastors?

Read my series on how to develop and grow a blog. It’s a 15 to 20 post series that starts with this post and goes from there. It contains most of what I know about blogging.

See all the previous Q&As in the Blogging 101 series here.

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